Thursday, January 23, 2025

The Jar Jar Cup, Part 1

Good morning gamers,

The Wretched Hive team is helping to run an escalation tournament for some local guys in our area. We're all pretty new to Legion, so if our stuff isn't as competitive as it could be, that's just us being green. Our tournament director is allowing proxies, which is good for a group of guys who are just getting into it (but as far as we can, we're trying to use/acquire the real things). We have eight participants and we'll be running the event over four weekends, each day with an increasing number of points (500/Skirmish, 650/Standard, 800/Standard, 1000/Standard).

I'm not organizing this event (hooray), though I have become the point of contact for terrain (and have provided feedback on lists that have been submitted to help our newer guys think through how list building for the actual scenarios they'll have work). Our first event was this past weekend, so without further ado, let's dig into the lists that were present for the first round!


This is my list - and it's very much the way I see Rebels working in Skirmish (and sort of how I see them working in Standard games as well). Rebel units melt away when they run into large dice pools (which basically any faction can do, but Republic lists especially can bring on the pain pretty easily), so I've compensated for having an easily-killed army with an army with a LOT of activations. The traditional (but soft) activation limit for any non-battle-force list in Skirmish is 11 (1 Commander/Operative/Heavy, 4 Corps, 2 Special Forces/Support) and this list reaches 10 activations with only one detachment to push back gently on a soft spot of the list building rules.

This tournament has a "rule of one" in play, so I had to check with Centaur (who's running the next list) to see if he needed Leia to make his list work. He did, so I opted for a 10-act Rebel Officer list instead of a 9-act Leia list (which I contend is actually better than what I'm running). The list has 2 AT-RTs for long-range fire support and hopefully some resiliency (more than my Corps are going to provide), 2 Ewok Slinger squads (thanks to Underworld Connections on the Rebel Officer) for decent range damage and lots of bodies, 3 squads of Rebel Troopers (one with an SX-21, the other two with a fifth trooper, and all three with Prepared Supplies to trigger Nimble before we've moved), and a Rebel Veteran/Mark II Medium Blaster tag-team to fill out my Corps requirement and get an extra activation. All told, I should be able to outnumber all of the other lists and hopefully can steal some quick VPs on rounds 2-3 to have an edge as we get into rounds 4-5.
  • Rebel Officer with Underworld Connections
  • 2 Rebel Troopers with Rebel Trooper and Prepared Supplies
  • 1 Rebel Trooper with SX-21 Trooper and Prepared Supplies
  • 1 Rebel Veteran
  • 1 Mark II Medium Blaster Trooper
  • 2 Ewok Slingers with Forest Dwellers
  • 2 Rebel AT-RTs with Laser Cannons
Overall, I'm pretty confident that I can do well in all three scenarios, since I can spread out without worrying about needing synergies (beyond the Coordinate rule between the Vets and the Mark II). I've got a bit of long-range threat with the AT-RTs, good mid-range threat with four of my Corps squads, and good close-range threat with my Slingers and the SX-21 - all in all, I'm cautiously optimistic that I can survive with more units on the objectives than my opponent can.


This is Centaur's list - and as was previously noted, I checked with him to see if he needed Leia to make his list work. He did - and here's his list:
  • Leia Organa with Improvised Orders and Prepared Supplies
  • Rebel Veterans with CM-0/93 Trooper, extra guy, and Prepared Supplies
  • Rebel Veterans with CM-0/93 Trooper, extra squad, Offensive Push, and Prepared Supplies
  • Tauntaun Riders with Tenacity and Hacked Comms Unit
  • 1.4 FD Laser Cannon Team with Linked Targeting Array and Barrage Generator
Centaur plays EBD almost exclusively - and he loves both the FD Laser Cannons and the "super-sized" squads of Rebel Veterans. From experience, both throw a lot of dice down the field and the super-sized Vets have a lot of wounds, so they'll stick around for a while. They're also very cheap surge-for-hit-with-black-dice units (mostly because they don't focus that much on defensive saves).

For me, though, the list does seem a bit split in personality. Yes, it's got an FD Cannon, but that unit will only be able to generate VPs in Bunker Assault (assuming it's near a flank) and it can attempt to deny points in Intercept Signals (it can't score any points off the POI that sits in friendly territory) - but it won't be a scoring unit in Close the Pocket. By contrast, the list also has a squad of Tauntauns, who are very much the equivalent of Centaur's beloved Polish Cavalry from Bolt Action, making their points back by running things over in a very aggressive offensive way. Since EBD needs to take at least one Support piece, it seems to me like leaning into either the Tauntauns or the Laser Cannons would have been the best play - but not both.

A 6-act EBD list that foresook the FD Laser Cannon would look something like this (it's literally Centaur's list without the Laser Cannon and the Prepared Supplies on Leia and adding two Mark IIs to provide a more mobile variety of cover fire), while a 7-act list that foresakes the Tauntaun might look like this (it loses the Tauntaun squad and downgrades the extra squad to an extra guy, all while adding 2 Mark IIs and another Rebel Veteran squad). Centaur's Polish strategy is definitely playing out in his list building here (artillery supporting cavalry), so the list is very much the sort of list that Centaur would run even if I could definitively prove that either of these other lists was better . . . but it's also very much the kind of list I wouldn't run. To each his own . . .


This is my son Gorgoroth's list - and it's definitely the one that scares me the most. In a word, Anakin-double-ARCs:
  • Anakin Skywalker with Saber Throw, Force Barrier, and Tenacity
  • Clone Trooper Infantry with Clone Medic
  • ARC Troopers x2
  • Clone Commandos, Delta Squad with Katarn Pattern Armor and config
The list is streamlined incredibly well - and it showcases the absurd levels of power the Republic can get from well-tuned units. Gorgoroth needed a Commander, so he took Anakin with Saber Throw, Force Barrier (instead of Burst of Speed - it's the way he runs Anakin), and Tenacity. He needed at least one Corps unit, so he took exactly one Corps unit (and it has just a medic in it). He needed at least one Support unit, so he took Delta Squad with the required Katarn Pattern Armor and the free-so-why-not config. He needed at least one Special Forces unit, so naturally, he took two. The 501st Legion is pretty difficult to get five activations at 500pts, but Gorgoroth did it - and it scares me very much.

The only critique one could possibly make of this list is that the ARCs don't have Clone Commanders to really make them sing - but I put it to you that the only way you're getting those in a 501st list with Anakin at its head is if you downgrade Delta Squad to an AT-RT (no hard points) and drop the Medic from the Clone Trooper Infantry. Alternatively, you could go the full-on Clone Commander route and downgrade Anakin for a Clone Commander, two Clone Commander Squad Leaders for the ARCs, and another Clone Trooper Infantry squad with an extra guy. This 6-activation list might have an edge over an Anakin list, but I think it's likely that Anakin gives you FAR more potency and threat over a 6-act, all-Clones list (more on this later).

So yes, I will be very happy to NOT run into this list - it very much looks like the only list that can clear 3 of my activations every turn (and after just one or two turns of that, I'm probably not getting any more VPs).


I had a lot of input into this list, so I don't have any changes to it - the list began with "Maul, a squad of Mandos, and two squads of Pikes" and when presented with the option of adding one of the two Bounty Hunters the Shadow Collective has access to, I said, "take another squad of Mandos instead." And that's the list:
  • Maul with Force Choke, Saber Throw, and the Darksaber
  • Pyke Syndicate Foot Soldiers with extra guy x2
  • Mandalorian Super Commandos with Super Commando Marksman and Super Commando Jetpack Rockets
  • Mandalorian Super Commandos with Rook Kast and Super Commando Jetpack Rockets
There were several ways this list could have gone - the Rook Kast squad is 113pts, which would have allowed Bossk or Cad Bane to be taken with 8pts of upgrades (definitely doable wtih Bossk, very questionable for Cad Bane). I didn't think of it until after the deadline, but he could have also submitted the list with 4 squad of Pykes, upping his activation count to six instead of five. The Pyke squads could have taken Electro-whip heavy weapons instead of the extra guys and STILL had enough points for Smoke Grenades on someone (or 1 Electro-whip could have been taken and Maul could have picked up Tenacity). Either way, this list is running some flexible attack options in the Commandos, a devastating offensive choice in Maul (hopefully he doesn't dive-bomb his way into oblivion), and two squads of soft-but-cheap Pykes.

Most of the models will be borrowed from Gorgoroth's collection of Shadow Collective - and I told him that there are Shadow Collective lists that I fear when the points level is low (like this 5-act "Fury Road" list), since they have some serious aggro-threatening units and there's not enough space or time to deal with them all before they're upon you. Alas, I don't have to worry about those lists - and the list that I'm presented with seems like it might be beatable (mostly by ignoring Maul and focusing on overwhelming the other four activations).


Besides the 501st list, this is the other list that I'm very concerned about facing. I provided some input to this list as well - and I kinda hate myself for it (while being equally proud of myself at the same time). It's simple - it's Vader, four squads of Storms, and a Royal Guard escort . . . the kind of list you can't just shoot off the table it if walks together:
  • Darth Vader with Saber Throw, Force Choke, Burst of Speed, and Esteemed Leader
  • Stormtroopers with Ascension Cables
  • Stormtroopers with extra guy x3
  • Imperial Royal Guards with Electrostaff Guard, Protector, and Recon Intel
There are minor things I'd do to tune the list (like trade out the Ascension Cables for Targeting Scopes, or swapping Protector for Tenacity), but the bones of the list are more than solid: Vader will be able to shuffle long-range damage off of him with Guardian 1 on each of the Stormtrooper units near him, Backup from any one of the other units in the list that aren't suppressed, and then potentially Guardian 2/another Charging melee unit with the Royal Guards. The list is pretty terrifying if you're relying on plink damage to clear out activations over time (which I am).

That being said, the Stormtroopers only have 4-5 wounds each and "only" have red dice to keep themselves alive. Yes, the Royal Guards can shuffle damage off the Storms too, but they can't all be in all places at once. Furthermore, if I happen to face this list in Bunker Assault, it isn't clear how many units are going to sit back on their objectives and play defense - which means a marauding band of Ewok Slingers or two could score some fast points by racing to the opposite board edge late in the first round, then surprising any Stormtroopers that were left behind with a hail of stones (and if they can end within range 1/2 of the POIs, they'll do 2 damage to it). All in all, I need to kill the Royal Guards and most of the Stormtroopers and I should be able to win . . . if Vader doesn't level me first.


On to a list I had absolutely NO input into . . . because if I had given input, I think it would look very different. The plan, I think, was simple: bring the Bad Batch to the table and surround it with units that are healthy enough to not die. If that was, indeed, the plan, I think it succeeded:
  • Clone Commander with Vigilance, Offensive Push, and Portable Scanner
  • The Bad Batch with everyone
  • Clone Trooper Infantry with Clone Commander, extra squad, and Duck and Cover
  • Clone Trooper Infantry with Clone Commander, Clone Medic, and Tenacity
Unfortunately, this list breaks a big list-building requirement of mine in Skirmish: it only has four activations. I can understand "only having five" because if you field a big hero, you probably only have room for 5-6 activations anyway. But a 4-act list is going to have a hard time securing 2 objectives, let alone the 3-4 that actually show up in the scenarios.

What surprises me is that the Bad Batch is cheaper than Anakin and yet this list has fewer activations than the Anakin list we saw above. It does this for two reasons: first, the Anakin list runs most of its squads with zero extra guys (there's a Clone Medic in there, but there are no heavy weapons or squad leader upgrades at all). This list has (wait for it) two Clone Commander Squad Leaders, a Medic (VERY useful if you have the Bad Batch), and an extra squad on the non-Medic group.

Furthermore, there are a TON of upgrades that have been slapped onto the Commander and Clone Trooper Infantry, probably because without taking them, there wasn't enough points left to get another squad. Several questions arise: does the Clone Commander really need a Portable Scanner (which will consume one action) and Offensive Push (which requires a recover action to use more than once)? Is Vigilance something you're actually going to use? Is the medic squad planning to get into melee to use Tenacity? This seems like the kind of jank list that's going to surprise me because I can't for the life of me see why some of these upgrades are in the list.

Of course, it might also be that I have played more games with Republic than this fella, so maybe I just don't see the possibility of using certain upgrades as worth the squeeze. The Personnel, Squad Leader, and "other" upgrades cost 168pts, which means you could easily get a 5-act list by swapping all of the upgrades on the Clone Commander for Electrobinoculars, swapping all of the upgrades (except the Medic) on the Clone Trooper Infantry squads for a DP-23 and Boil, and then adding an ARC Trooper squad with a Clone Commander and Targeting Scopes. This wouldn't involve any super-sized Clone squads, but Clones are one of those lists that can't really take super-sized squads in a Skirmish game (even if you skipped the Bad Batch and took normal units, I think you'd be much better served by a 7-act list with a Clone Commander, 4 Clone Trooper Infantry, and 2 ARCs than you would by one with fewer activations and super-sized Clones).

I'm hoping to be surprised by the results of this list - the Bad Batch can be pretty potent, but we'll see how well it functions.


This is another list I had no input on - and I kinda wish I could have lent some ideas to it, because when I asked about it, the guy running it said, "Yeah, I haven't played a lot of Legion." This fella is our "ringer" player and he immediately wins Most Valuable Participant because without him, we wouldn't have had eight players. As such, I hope he wins - he and his Rex Star list:
  • Clone Captain Rex with Aggressive Tactics and Targeting Scopes
  • Clone Trooper Infantry with RPS-6 Clone Trooper, Clone Medic, Hunter, and Targeting Scopes
  • Clone Trooper Infantry with Z-6 Clone Trooper
  • Clone Trooper Infantry with RPS-6 Clone Trooper, Hunter, and Portable Scanner
  • Clone Commandos with Hunter, HQ Uplink, Katarn Pattern Armor, and config
First off, let's just appreciate how much range 4 is in this list - and we don't have access to ARF Troopers or Clone Marksmen yet! Two RPS-6s and a range-4 config option on the Clone Commandos is pretty gnarly, but on the turn that he plays Take That Clankers!, the Clone Trooper Infantry (including the Medic and Z-6 units) all get range 4 as well, so long as they perform an aim action. So . . . if he can sit back on Turn 2 and aim-and-shoot (in, I don't know, Bunker Assault), he's gonna pound the SNOT out of whoever's on the other side of the board. 

The main issue I see with the list is actually found in the RPS-6s - yes, they can shoot from range 4, but they can't do that on the first turn (since they have Cumbersome now). Additionally, because the RPS-6s have range 4 to start with, these guys aren't getting any bonuses from the Take That Clankers! command card - and each squad that took them could have saved 1pt by taking a Z-6 instead (which would not only benefit from those Targeting Scopes, but would also benefit from the increase in range). While not as immediately potent as the Z-6, the DP-23 would also benefit greatly from a Clankers! play and while it would max out at range 3, the addition of Pierce makes it a great addition when shooting into red-dice saves (which I don't have in my list and Centaur doesn't have in his list - but everyone else has taken some in their lists).

Ultimately, there's no critique from me on this list - in many ways, it reflects the desire of a guy to use cool things. And that's cool. Now on to the last list . . .


This list was submitted by our tournament organizer and it has . . . well, it has Dooku and B2s in it - which makes it really good and really expensive:
  • Count Dooku with Force Choke, Force Barrier, Force Reflexes, and Esteemed Leader
  • B2 Super Battle Droids with B2-ACM
  • B2 Super Battle Droids with B2-ACM and EV-series Medical Droid
  • BX-Series Droid Commandos with Dioxis Mine Saboteur, Tenacity, Comms Jammer, Vibroswords, and Smoke Grenades
Have I mentioned my list buildling rule about having at least five activations? I have? Okay, well, the comment applies here too - but perhaps more so here because the other list with 4 activations had the Bad Batch in it, which is a predominantly ranged-weapon unit that has the Steady keyword. This 4-act list has Dooku in it - and Dooku's big and Dooku's bad, but Dooku also lacks any free-attack keyword (Charge, Steady, or Relentless) EXCEPT on the turn he plays his 1-pip. Beyond that, if Dooku wants to attack someone with that awesome lightsaber of his (or the slightly-less-awesome Force Lightning of his), he needs to move once and attack once (assuming he can reach whoever he wants to attack with a single move).

This is also a Speed-2 single move because Force Barrier was taken (again) instead of Burst of Speed. While you can argue that Anakin can get free movement from his 1-pip (and possibly when a friendly unit dies - though that's bad for a 5-act list in Skirmish), Dooku has to slog across the board the old-fashioned way: by walking. Not jumping, walking. Just walking. I don't know, I feel like using Dooku's 1-pip to dive-bomb into something with Burst of Speed would be really good. Apparently, that's the play here.

That all being said, Force Barrier and Esteemed Leader with two squads of B2s means two things: first, that dealing damage to Dooku from afar is going to be hard (B2s are hard to suppress, so we have to assume that Back Up will be in play AND they'll each have Guardian 1 - oh, and Reflexes will probably trigger until Choke can be used). Second, dealing damage to B2s will be hard (because multi-wound models, red defense dice, and Force Barrier). All told, Dooku and the B2s are going to be a nightmare for most people to clear off the table . . .

. . . unless you have 10 activations in your list, 9 of which can throw a cumulative 2 white/38 black/4 red dice for an expected 22.5 hits/round (with an extra 2 damage expected from surges on the Rebel Veterans, the Mark II, and the AT-RTs - and the option to surge with the Slingers once per turn if they didn't get an order token). 24 hits translates into 12 wounds against red defense dice - and with Esteemed Leader instead of Aggressive Tactics, there's going to be no surge on these units (and there's no defensive surge conversion outside of Dooku). With the only range 3 threat being the Droid Commandos (who are admittedly a threat, but only to the extent that 10 white dice with surge to hit are a threat), a list like mine should be able to face less-than-full-strength B2s and might even be able to pop the Droid Commandos by the end of Turn 2. After that, 4 activations should quickly turn into one activation (maybe two).

Personally, I'm eyeing that Droid Commando unit and thinking that it could easily turn into a B1 unit (in a list like this) - drop the Dioxis Mine Sab, drop the Comms Jammer, and drop the Smoke Grenades and shuffle the Med bot over to a newly-forged B1 unit. We've lost 1 red-save wound and picked up 6 white-save wounds - and the B2-ACM doesn't have to be taken before the med bot is lost. It's otherwise the same list, but it has one extra activation, and the BX droids are slightly worse off than they were before (but 6 white dice without surge to hit is still going to be better than 2 white dice with surge to hit - and not far off from the 1 red/1 black/1 white that the mine provided in melee or at range 1). All in all, I'd take that one instead.

Okay, so with the lists out of the way, let's see how everyone did!

Table 1: Empire vs. Bad Batch Republic (Intercept Signals/Recon Mission)

This is the match I have the least amount of data on, but from what I understand Darth Vader was killed in melee by a Clone squad, but besides him and another Stormtrooper squad, the other Imperial units survived - and the Clones kind of shied away from taking objectives from them. This is probably due to the fact that the Clones started with four activations and didn't really have extra activations to chase enemy units. I also understand that the Bad Batch were played pretty conservatively, leaning into the long-range shooting of Crosshair instead of chasing down enemy activations with all the blasters. That could have been done differently . . . 

As such, because you can only score on three objectives each turn (and both sides could keep scanner units on the board near objectives), the game ended with a very close score of 12-11 favoring the Empire. I didn't have time to hop over and look (and it was the only table that wasn't in my view), but it was apparently a very close game (though it probably shouldn't have been with Vader out so early - but alas, a fifth activation would have freed up the Bad Batch more, no?).

Table 2: Echo Base Defenders vs. Shadow Collective (Intercept Signals/Bring to Heel)

I heard a lot from Centaur's game against Maul/Mandos - mostly I heard at the very beginning that Rook Kast's unit was blown off the table on Turn 2 (something about "good white dice attack results" - probably those darned CM-0/93s doing what they do again - and I have to assume the long-range firepower of the FD cannon). The Shadow Collective were able to get Maul and the other Commandos in pretty quickly, though, and the tide quickly rolled against Centaur. 

This scenario was one of two that allowed the FD cannon to do something in the scoring arena, but he had limited options for actually GETTING across the field to claim VPs. As such, when the dust cleared, Centaur's entire army was tabled and the game ended with a score of 4-9 favoring the Shadow Collective.

Table 3: Rebel Alliance vs. CIS (Intercept Signals/Recon Mission)

This was my game - and I'll be honest, I'm glad it was Intercept, because if it had been either of the other two scenarios, my massive number of activations (10 for me, 4 for the tournament director) would have given me a HUGE advantage. Instead, we did a lot of what Table 1 did, except that I didn't have a Vader model for him to focus fire on and accidentally kill early, and instead I had a bunch of small units who could chip away at the high-health, red-save B2 units (and lower-health, red-save BX Commandos) slowly. I never fired at Dooku at all, which made both the Medbot and Esteemed Leader non-players.

I did make some errors - my Mark II was issued an order on the first turn (Assault), which means that it should have had a standby token . . . and after I passed (Advanced Intel for the win) and my opponent passed, I moved them first, thinking I needed to get them up the board to be useful on the second turn. It turns out, though, that a squad of BX Commandos with a Scout 3 move followed by two Speed 2 moves/Charge can get into that guy pretty quickly. By holding the activation and moving someone else, I could have gotten a shot in with my guy BEFORE he had to activate (possibly two shots, but more likely still a double-move towards an objective) without taking hits. As it was, I was kinda hoping that the Mark II would die to the opening charge, but he managed to only take 3 of his 4 Wounds, which meant the BX squad was safe for the first turn and I got to take shots at B2s instead.

The luck didn't last, though, for the CIS - Dooku had to deploy long before my last activation and that meant I could dedicate very little to the side of the board he decided to target (the one with his Medbot). That meant that both Dooku and a B2 unit were forced to tackle a lone AT-RT instead of being able to help against my other activations. Dooku eventually made his way to where the fighting was, but the B2 unit had to stay away from the action, only engaging a Rebel Trooper squad with extra dude/Prepared Supplies who made it to his starting objective. Turns out a double-move with a cached dodge token on those guys is a pretty good way to make sure that you survive the first salvo from the enemy (and decent saves makes sure you survive the second salvo as well). All in all, there were just too few activations to get ahead on the points while trying to deny points to me.

In the end, the scanner tokens helped him immensely, since he could fail to secure the side POIs but still get points from them. The game was recorded as a 12-11 win for the Rebels, though looking back at it, the actual score is 12-10 (since we awarded the CIS 1 VP for having a scanner near their starting objective). It was a very intense game with the second-to-last activation of the last round of the game actually mattering (or so we thought). It was really fun and a very good showing from a list that I thought would struggle against all my activations (Dooku is really good - but he could have used an extra B1 squad to sit on the objective the B2 was forced to hold).

Table 4: 501st Legion vs. Rex Republic (Close the Pocket/Surface Scan)

This game . . . was over in three rounds. Apparently, Rex's guys were able to shoot off an ARC Trooper squad . . . and never dealt wounds to Anakin and Delta Squad. When that happens (and when Anakin picks up two of your five activations in a single round) when the objective is to hold the center of the map . . . things go south. The Rex player did an admirable job, but really struggled to get VPs because his scanners couldn't stay alive (and he couldn't control the center). The game ended with a score of 13-0 favoring the 501st, but I still contend that the Rex player is our Most Valuable Participant.

Conclusion

So yeah, it was a fun weekend - lots was learned from preparing for the day and we're excited for the next get-together to do Round 2 (which might be a month from now given the business of schedules for the next few weekends). I'm going to try to get a list and game recap for each day of the event, so follow this space to see how we do! Until next time, may the Rebellion live on and happy hobbying!
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